Talk:Alkanet Flower

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Why to double the effect entry? They were already listed in categories. -ykb

I thought about it for a while, and I figured that some people wouldn't realize that those are the effects in that specific order (in relation to a person's Alchemy level). Also, I see the list of effects as slightly different than the list of the effects in categories. With the list of effects, a person can find out more about each effect (i.e. more info on restore, more info on fatigue, etc.). When a person wants to know what other ingredients restore fatigue, then they can click that category. --TheSpectator 02:08, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

EDIT: That's why I just did it to the first two ingredients, because I was unsure of what other people would suggest. --TheSpectator 02:10, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

[edit] Merging with parent plant

The plant articles have some nice pictures and the ingredient articles have good information, I see no good reason why they should be separate. Both articles are depedent on each other and the combined article would still be very manageable. I propose that we combine all ingredients into their parent when possible. I have written an example for the combined article I would like to see for Alkanet.

{{Plant|[[Image:Alkanet.jpg|100px]]|[[Alkanet#Alkanet Flower|Alkanet Flower]]}}

This tall-stemmed green plant with blue or purple leaves can be found around [[Skingrad]] and between [[Skingrad]] and [[Kvatch]].

These locations are good sources of Alkanet:
* [[Fort Vlastarus]]
* [[Nornalhorst]]


== Alkanet Flower ==
[[Alchemy|Alchemical]] ingredient produced by the [[Alkanet]].

=== Properties ===
:'''Value:''' 1
:'''Weight:''' 0.1
:'''Harvest chance:''' 80%

=== Effects ===
*[[Restore]] [[Intelligence]] 
*[[Resist]] [[Poison]]
*[[Light]]
*[[Damage]] [[Fatigue]]


[[Category: Damage Fatigue]]
[[Category: Ingredients]]
[[Category: Light]]
[[Category: Plants]]
[[Category: Resist Poison]]
[[Category: Restore Intelligence]]

Andy C. and I have both tried to organize plants and/or crops on varioous pages but are going at it from different directions. I have been listing the plants in the region and he the product of plants (specifically crops). If there was one article it would more search/wikilink efficient and more useful in terms of content.

Any thoughts? --Avfanatic 21:57, 5 February 2007 (CST)

I agree, it would be more efficient to merge all the ingredient and flora articles. The only exception to this would be the ingredients that come from creatures. \*\ Hellhound43 22:22, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Edit conflict! I guess my thinking took too long, lol. After some thought, I'd support a merging of plant-ingredient and plant. Also, I think every ingredient should have a small picture infobox like the plants do. I assume that non-plant/ingredients, such as Boar Meat, Scamp Skin, Apple, and Sweetroll retain their original pages?

For crops, I suggest that Harvesting Crops be moved to Crops, and then a link to Crops be made from the Plant article (basically Crops is a subdivision of Plant).

Lastly, once we agree upon the plan, we can play with the standard formatting for the combined plant-ingredient page at the Plants standard formatting. This way, we can iron out how its going to look before applying it and merging the articles. --theSpectator talk 22:26, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Hehe, got ya ;). I'll see if I can come up with an infobox. \*\ Hellhound43 22:30, 5 February 2007 (CST)

EDIT: Ok, I created an infobox and attached it to the article. What do you guys think? \*\ Hellhound43 00:07, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Looks great, I appreciate the work but I do have a few suggestions:

• Top name should be plant (pagename) but, properties should be ingredient
• Locations should be in article for two reasons:
  1. I plan on putting a lot, general and specific to aid ingredient hunting.
  2. Gives the article some meat, otherwise infobox says it all.
• Listings should be left justified (personal preference ;) ).

--Avfanatic 00:19, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Thanks, I'll work on it tomorrow. By "properties should be ingredient," do you mean it should just say ingredient or do you mean the ingredient name as opposed to the flora? Don't forget that we could use this infobox for creature-dropped ingredients as well, with a little tweaking perhaps.

I'll take out the locations section, and figure out how to left justify it (it centered it automatically). Now that I look at the article, I'll replace the location section with harvest chance. \*\ Hellhound43 01:09, 6 February 2007 (CST)

I meant the ingredient's name as opposed to the flora's name in the properties section. For creature-ingredient pages I imagine it would be the creature's name on top and the dropped item's name in properties. --Avfanatic 02:12, 6 February 2007 (CST)

For articles with plants, there should be one infobox that'll contain both the plant and ingredient that will basically have (in this order):

• "Plant name"
• "Plant picture"
• Ingredient Properties
• "Ingredient name"
• "Ingredient picture"
• Harvest Chance: "A %"
• Value: "B"
• Weight: "C"
• Ingredient Effects
• "Four effects"

I'm not sure if that's too much in one infobox (too tired right now to make one and try it). Then, for other ingredients that do not have a plant source, there'll be a separate infobox that has the same as above, minus the plant name, plant picture, and Ingredient Properties parts. Not sure if that makes sense, but tomorrow I'll make a test one or something.

Also, will we be combining creature ingredients with the creature it belongs to? (e.g. Boar Meat merged with Boar?) --theSpectator talk 02:18, 6 February 2007 (CST)

I think that's doable, the ingredient pages by themselves are mighty slim. A redirect should most problems, only the listsings by category for alchemy would really be affected (i.e. Boar instead of Boar Meat, Deer instead of Venison). Just my opinion.

Also I suggest that 3 & 4 of your list should be combined (i.e. "Alkanet Flower Properties" instead of "Ingredient Properties" & "Alkanet Flower"). --Avfanatic 02:59, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Ok, I updated the infobox. If you are wondering the red link for harvest chance points to the crops article. Any more thoughts? \*\ Hellhound43 11:28, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Look great! My one question: Do any ingredients have pictures and is that important to the article or a nice extra? Great job , it'll be a nice addition. --Avfanatic 15:02, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Thanks. I think there are a few ingredients that have pictures... but I think Spec was thinking of their entry in the inventory menu. I suppose it could be a nice extra. \*\ Hellhound43 15:43, 6 February 2007 (CST)

I like the updated infobox. For the ingredient picture, the first thing that came to mind when I mentioned it was the actual picture of the ingredient. The icon in the inventory could work too; it doesn't matter with me.

I'm not sure exactly why, but I'm hesitant on merging creature ingredients with the creature itself (as in the Boar Meat --> Boar above). Plants makes sense: They don't move, are always found in the same places, don't attack you (except for the ones in Oblivion), and you always harvest the same ingredient (not 100% of the time, but the same ingredient nonetheless). Creatures on the other hand, are actually alive, have stats and attributes, move around and attack, and actually have a set of random drops, which may or may not include their ingredient. It certainly is logical that since merging plants with their ingredient, why not do the same with creatures and their ingredients, but to me, they're a bit different. --theSpectator talk

EDIT: Oh, and I was thinking that Category:Ingredients will certainly be a bit awkward once we merge the ingredients into their respective plant article. However, I don't think it'd be a big issue, as we could place a note that some ingredients are in their plant articles. --theSpectator talk 22:17, 6 February 2007 (CST)

I wasn't going to suggest that we merge creature and ingredient articles, as yes that would be awkward, I simply meant that we could put Boar in the title for example and then a picture of a Boar, for example. \*\ Hellhound43 00:47, 7 February 2007 (CST)

Ahh okay. I'm all up for the merging; I created the plant style and formatting page based on our discussion here. Feel free to tweak it and edit it before committing to changing all the articles. --theSpectator talk 13:51, 8 February 2007 (CST)

EDIT: The only question is, since the ingredient properties and effects are already in the infobox, does it need to be repeated in the actual text? --theSpectator talk 13:55, 8 February 2007 (CST)

No, I left it there for the sake of not having to go through a hassle of restoring any missing information in case the infobox changed. I will just change the last bit of the instruction section that mentions that the infobox follows the page name, since I removed it. \*\ Hellhound43 15:04, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Changing the category of the infobox to Category:Plants and then having all the redirected ingredient articles categorized as Category:Ingredients would not affect the use of the ingredients category to search and the listings will match the item's listing from inventory (e.g. Aloe Vera would be in Category:Plants and Aloe Vera Leaves in Category:Ingredients even though they both point to the same article). --Avfanatic 01:03, 13 February 2007 (CST)

{resurrects old discussion} Ahh okay, I didn't know that; I thought placing a redirect ignores all the remaining content of a page, but apparently the categories still work, which is good. If you guys are cool with this, lets do this! The only thing is, if we're having the ingredient stats in the infobox, then I assume we won't need it in the main text. --theSpectator talk 14:44, 25 February 2007 (CST)

{feeling zombified} Well, I got lost somewhere between redirects and categories, but if you guys understand it and know what you're doing fine by me. As I believe I mentioned earlier, yes we can get rid of it from the article. I just left it on this article temporarily so I wouldn't have to do extra work restoring something in case you guys decided to sodomize play around with the infobox. \*\ Hellhound43 16:08, 25 February 2007 (CST)

I adjusted the Aloe Vera article to what I think would something to aim for but it's a lot of work. Is there anything else that should be added? --Avfanatic 23:13, 25 February 2007 (CST)

Looks great! No kidding that it's a lot of work, but if you are up to it then by all means go for it! The only potential difficulty here is that you also need to take into account that not all combinations will necessarily work when the player is, say, apprentice level because they need to see for eg Restore Fatigue on both ingredients, and a few of them may be in the third or fourth slot etc. Nice work. \*\ Hellhound43 23:41, 25 February 2007 (CST)

I did take into account what each alchemist level means, I checked through each category for the slots of each ingredient. Combining the articles is no big deal but I'm not at all volunteering to do that amount of work for every ingredient. I did it with Aloe Vera because I'm trying to write one definitive article to model others on (the few I might do all the work for). I don't know what else we could put about a plant or its ingredient. --Avfanatic 00:55, 26 February 2007 (CST)

DONE. --Avfanatic 23:24, 19 March 2007 (CDT)